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Replying to Same Sex Marriage Legal in N.Y.

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[quote name='Black Cat' timestamp='1312147038' post='92912'] I think, if people were really free in their choices of whom to love and whom to share their lives with, they would automatically become more cautious when entering a relationship. However, people will always make mistakes or will simply change over the years. And if you love someone, how can you ask them to be responsible for loving you unconditionally, although they simply don't anymore? Like I said, I'm not against commitment, I just don't think, it can or should be forced. Why would she ask you to live a loveless life? And I just hope, you're not only acting on what you think is for her benefit, but on what she actually thinks is beneficial to her. Edit: Oh, you edited your post and wrote more. I have to go to bed now, I will read it tomorrow. [/quote]

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SertraOD

Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:11 PM

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With children there are different responsibilities.

Yes, it is more acceptable to have children after marriage, but 50% of marriages end in divorce. So that works both ways. Marriage is a catalyst for having children, even though it has been shown that marriage itself is not an ideal condition for having children in the first place.

I'd say it's better if people need to be more cautious. Choosing to have a child with someone would require a legitimate trust, instead of a legal based trust, which is almost like saying "I do trust you, but... just to be safe...". It's a step up of responsibility that people need to take in order to be less reliant on the government to do everything for them.

Same idea with property.

We have a fucked up concept of marriage in this day and age though.

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Punk Rock Geek

Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:29 AM

SertraOD, on 31 July 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

Marriage is a declaration that you intend to stay together. Thus, engaging in behavior that could result in children is more acceptable after such a declaration.

SertraOD

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:45 PM

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Wait, are you in love with the same girl you said was making you miserable just a while back?

No... complicated situation.

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But if they want to remain exclusive on their own, why is marriage needed?

Marriage is a declaration that you intend to stay together. Thus, engaging in behavior that could result in children is more acceptable after such a declaration.

Also, it's a contract that allows us to know how to handle the children and property.

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Can't one person love two people equally?

I can't speak for other people. But I can't. Looking at others, I don't think they do either. I just think people have fucked up definitions of what love is.

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:27 PM

SertraOD, on 31 July 2011 - 11:10 PM, said:

Between meeting her I've had a three year relationship and several years of being single. Only seen her once in several years.

I think my case might be highly unusual. Actually, scratch that, it IS highly unusual. We can debate my personal life but frankly, you just haven't been here.

Wait, are you in love with the same girl you said was making you miserable just a while back?

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Which is wrong. Marriage should be two people who have unconditional love for each other. Thus, they simply wouldn't want to break up.

Maybe some...

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:15 PM

Black Cat, on 30 July 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

I once uttered my opinion on marriage and free love on another forum, right after a married guy gave his thoughts on the subject. Not that I wasn't expecting to get shit for what I said, but I can never help it to still feel really sad about getting called a selfish person with no heart, who is afraid of commitment over this matter. Out of all radical ideas, that I support, the concept of free love is the one, that I feel most annoyed about, when I'm being misunderstood and/or people just don't want to understand it. And it often bothers me, that even in the company of people, who are familiar with radical ideas, you usually have to argue so much...

SertraOD

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:11 PM

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No, you've pretty much said it perfectly. If both members wish to remain exclusive, it will happen without any words being spoken. There's no reason for a contract. And if the people involved have other things in mind, then the contract is even more worthless.

I dunno. What about children, property, etc?

And beyond a contract, marriage is kind of a declaration to yourselves and the community. It's a ritual, but it's a ritual many people feel driven to engage in.

SertraOD

Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:10 PM

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I think most people have felt the same way at some point in their life, and then changed.

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But marriage isn't usually unconditional. The condition is as such: "I will love you, provided that you love only me in return." Marriage is based on the concept of exclusivity; it's a social (and often legal) contract intended to make free love taboo, and as such limit the choices of your romantic partner. But what type of love is so fragile? That's not a love of a person--that's a mere l...

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:59 PM

Black Cat, on 31 July 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

I meant the concept of free love as in the Free Love Movement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_love

or the idea of Polyamory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory

Basically I think, that it unnecessarily limits the individual freedom of a person, if they are bound by law, or even by other rules or agreements to stay with another person. If it's mutual, there are no rules needed and if it's not, it shouldn't be...

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 31 July 2011 - 10:42 PM

SertraOD, on 31 July 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

I'm incapable of love without her.

I think most people have felt the same way at some point in their life, and then changed.

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Work on yourself and you will find "the one"--I think you're half-right. I think there is truth in being cautious about sex rather than simply relaxing on the process of splitting up. Be more cautious about entering relationships, don't make it easy to split. Because the naturalistic point of love is the creation of life. And if you create a life, you have a responsibility. So it's your responsibility to uncondi...

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:50 PM

SertraOD, on 31 July 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

I don't think it's a choice?

I believe she means the choice of whom you want to enter into a romantic relationship with.

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Replying to Same Sex Marriage Legal in N.Y.

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