Replying To ICC - Egypt: The class struggle takes centre stage

Renan

Posted 30 March 2011 - 09:04 AM

Punk Rock Geek, on 29 March 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

Working class people can, and often do, act against their own interests.

Right now the majority of the working class is contrary to revolution. I have never denied it.

Punk Rock Geek, on 29 March 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

The idea that all workers automatically have the same idea of emancipation has absolutely no basis in real world his...

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:52 PM

Renan, on 28 March 2011 - 09:53 AM, said:

They say that more than 200 years ago and frankly, I haven´t seen an advance made by the acts of leftists in the emancipation of workers and in the creation of a stateless and classless society ...

I still believe in that old quote: "The emancipation of workers must be made by the workers themselves".

Working class people can, and often do, act against their own interests. The idea that all workers automatically have the same idea of emancipation has absolutely no basis in real world history, and unlike the existance of leftist influence in relatively successful working class struggles, is unverifiable.

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:43 PM

All Dead, on 29 March 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

This dude would probably agree with you.
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If he knew nothing about my position, perhaps. Supporting the anarchist cause over the reformist patriarchal working class cause is quite the stretch from supporting a vanguard party.

And if I really cared about who agreed with me, I guess I'd rather it be Lenin than bunch of backwards-thinking misogynists.

KillBoY

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:40 AM

All Dead, on 29 March 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

This dude would probably agree with you.
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Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day.

All Dead

Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:16 AM

Punk Rock Geek, on 26 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

The "working class", at least defined as a generality, has nothing to offer. Real change will come from the revolutionary leftist fragments of Middle Eastern society.

This dude would probably agree with you.
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KillBoY

Posted 29 March 2011 - 08:48 AM

Renan, on 28 March 2011 - 09:53 AM, said:

They say that more than 200 years ago and frankly, I haven´t seen an advance made by the acts of leftists in the emancipation of workers and in the creation of a stateless and classless society ...

I still believe in that old quote: "The emancipation of workers must be made by the workers themselves".

Agreed.

Renan

Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:53 AM

Punk Rock Geek, on 26 March 2011 - 04:01 PM, said:

The "working class", at least defined as a generality, has nothing to offer. Real change will come from the revolutionary leftist fragments of Middle Eastern society.

They say that more than 200 years ago and frankly, I haven´t seen an advance made by the acts of leftists in the emancipation of workers and in the creation of a stateless and classless society ...

I still believe in that old quote: "The emancipation of workers must be made by the workers themselves".

Punk Rock Geek

Posted 26 March 2011 - 04:01 PM

To add onto what Goatse said:

Quote

I think attributing leftist values to a struggle just because it's viewed through leftist analysis is just optimism, and while i'd love to embrace that optimism, I doubt we're going to see anything genuinely beneficial to workers, just more societies where aspirant bourgeoisie can run the rat race.

“We fought side by side with men during the revolution, and now we’re not represented,” said Passat Rabie, a young woman who came with friends, after men aggressively dispersed the protest. “I thought Egypt was improving, that it was becoming a better country. If it’s changing in a way that’s going to exclude women, then what’s the point? Where’s the democracy?”

Hastily organized on Facebook to coincide with International Women's Day, the protest was billed as a "M...

AdamDabour

Posted 24 March 2011 - 06:42 PM

Renan, on 24 March 2011 - 02:38 PM, said:

The working class is really starting to fight for their interests and that, in my view, is a great start for a POSSIBLE series of class struggles...

But, in the same way, things may cool down and ending with no repercussions at all.
Unfortunately, only time can tell that ...

Some workers are fighting for rights they do deserve, such as decent pay and time off. Some of the working conditions in this country are horrible and something does need to be done. Alot of the people are abusing the recent riots. It's basically turned into " if I dont get my own way i'm going to protest" If a worker is told he cant...

Renan

Posted 24 March 2011 - 02:38 PM

Goatseboy, on 22 March 2011 - 12:54 PM, said:

That depends on who you ask. If you ask a leftist that, then that is the case. If you ask anyone else that, they will probably say "the people" leaving ambiguity to the actual nature of the struggle. Although the idea that people can rise up and fight for things has been given a higher profile, the idea of struggling against capitalism is not yet a part of these movements. I think attributing leftist values to a struggle just because it's viewed through leftist analysis is just optimism, and while i'd love to embrace that optimism, I doubt we're going to see anything genuinely beneficial to workers, just more societies where aspirant bourg...

Replying to ICC - Egypt: The class struggle takes centre stage

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Renan

Punk Rock Geek

Punk Rock Geek

KillBoY

All Dead

KillBoY

Renan

Punk Rock Geek

AdamDabour

Renan

Replying to ICC - Egypt: The class struggle takes centre stage

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