13 replies to this topic

[Loki]

Loki’s guide to online debate

•Define your terms.  Words have multiple meanings and interpretations. If you are talking about something that could be interpreted in multiple ways be sure to be specific as possible. This prevents threads from devolving into fights over semantics.

•Do not present opinion as fact.

•You do not need to be right about everything. If you are proven wrong on a statement, concede the point and move on. You can lose a battle and still win a war.  

•Cite your sources. If you say “studies show” , then it is expected that you can provide the study. In the information age, you can usually find the study you heard of in a few minutes of looking around online. A simple link is enough, hot linked to the word “studies” or “citation”.

        o Make sure your studies are relevant and credible.  Find the most up to date statistics.  

•Statistics can lie. Correlation does not equal causation.  Be careful not to get lost in numbers and charts.

•Read the full post before replying.  You may reply to part of it, but please at least pay attention to the rest of the post.

•If you have a long argument, break it into paragraphs. If there are multiple points, separate them into multiple paragraphs.

•If you are replying to a specific person, be sure to either quote what you are replying to or point out which member you are directing your post at.

•STAY ON TOPIC if you are debating a side. The debate may gradually shift from one topic to another throughout the natural coarse of the argument, but suddenly calling someone out for something they said in another thread on another topic derails the whole argument.

•Not all members of this forum speak English as a first language.  This should not exclude them from participation in debate. Please be considerate if they are having trouble expressing their point.

•You are arguing on the internet. Your opponent(s) may feel just as strongly as you. You probably won’t change their position. You are really arguing for the benefit of those on the sideline who may be undecided.  

•If you are debating Loki, he is probably just trying to see how fired up he can get you about the subject. He may or may not agree with the position he has taken on the issue.

Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric: You use these, you lose.
Stolen from http://www.truthtree.com/debates.shtml Pruned to most relevant.

o Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.
o Statistics of small numbers (such as drawing conclusions from inadequate sample sizes).
o Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - "it happened after so it was caused by" - confusion of cause and effect.
o Meaningless questions (meant to provoke individual but does nothing to further debate)
o Excluded middle -considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities
o Slippery slope - a subset of excluded middle -unwarranted extrapolation of the effects
o Confusion of correlation and causation.
o Straw man - caricaturing a person/people and the attacking that caricature.
o       Red Herring- Deliberately changing the subject of the debate.  


More will be added as I think of it.

[KillBoY]

I think this should be posted at the top of each forum. ESPECIALLY the point about Ad hominem attacks.

[Punk Rock Geek]

Very well done Loki.  Everyone should take the chance to read through this.

[Aidyn]

Nice, although I'm surprised circulus in demonstrando aka circular argument isn't one of the common fallacies. Sadly I've lost my interest in good debate, that's why I never visit the politics section anymore (although I don't know if there is good debate in there or not). Somewhere along the way I became rather apathetic.

[James]

Aidyn, on 21 July 2009 - 01:32 AM, said:

Nice, although I'm surprised circulus in demonstrando aka circular argument isn't one of the common fallacies. Sadly I've lost my interest in good debate, that's why I never visit the politics section anymore (although I don't know if there is good debate in there or not). Somewhere along the way I became rather apathetic.

It's when you became indoctrinated with mainstream American post-secondary education, you capitalist swine.

[Floyd]

I'm going to go ahead and say that if everyone followed those rules TPU would be a very boring place for those of us who read your debates. I'm not discouraging their use, but I enjoy reading long-winded arguments that seem to be about nothing at all.

[Loki]

Oh those will still happen, I just hate people arguing for 3 pages about the correct definition of "waterfowl" and whether or not it includes pelicans,due to a comment made 2 weeks ago in a riot zone thread.

[Zane 911]

wow i'm surprised you toke the time to make that loki. nice job.

[Gibby]

This should be stickied!

[No Pax Without PaxWarriors]

Gibby, on 21 July 2009 - 10:30 AM, said:

This should be stickied!

THIS,
damn gibby I was gonna say that but you stole my thunder haha

[Gibby]

No Pax Without PaxWarriors, on 21 July 2009 - 10:17 PM, said:

THIS,
damn gibby I was gonna say that but you stole my thunder haha

That's how I roll.

[Rissa]

i suck at e-debating because its kind of hard for me to get my thoughts into words..to type. IRL i still can't debate cause i just get angry and start yelling.

[CoolToHate]

Isn't excluded middle the same as a false dichotomy?

[Loki]

Yes as well as false dilemma. They all basically mean presenting an either/or option without considering moderate or alternative choices.