30 replies to this topic

[Punk Rock Geek]

Has anyone read this?  It argues that drugs are used, and perhaps even marketed as an "easy" escape from capitalism and they discourage us from doing the work  necessary to actually free ourselves.  I thought it was an interesting radical perspective on the drug-free lifestyle.

http://www.crimethin...hol_reading.pdf

“Every fucking anarchist project I engage in is ruined or nearly ruined by
alcohol. You set up a collective living situation and everyone is too drunk or stoned to do the
basic chores, let alone maintain an attitude of respect. You want to create community, but after
the show everyone just goes back to their rooms and drinks themselves to death. If it’s not one
substance to abuse it’s a motherfucking other. I understand trying to obliterate your consciousness
is a natural reaction to being born in alienating capitalist hell, but I want people to see what we
anarchists are doing and say “Yeah, this is better than capitalism!”…which is hard to say if you
can’t walk around without stepping on broken forty-ounce bottles. I’ve never considered myself straight-edge,
but fuck it, I’m not taking it anymore!”

[All Dead]

I'll drink to that.

[Floyd]

[EatShitAndCry]

I figured this out a long time ago. God, I'm so much punker than all of you it hurts.

[punkd2493]

I'm straightedge and I agree
orange juice all around

[Black Cat]

I can relate to the idea, that being addicted to any drug is contradictory to being free. Internalizing this idea helped me a lot with quitting smoking about 8 years ago.

However, using drugs is not the same as being addicted or abusing substances, which is why I'm not in favour of being ascetic of anything, unless you're addicted and being ascetic is the only way you can fight the addiction. Or the substance is dangerous in itself in the first place, of course.

[Goatseboy]

Drug use is fine, people need to get off their horses. Unless as a political entity all you do is sit around smoking weed and not going demonstrating or propogating.

[EatShitAndCry]

All of you are sellouts. All of you are disappointments to Ian Mackaye.

Also you're all jerkwads.

[Goatseboy]

Battycrease

[Floyd]

From what I have heard, this is true. I have been to/heard of punk houses that end up getting their lease revoked because the people living there won't take care of it and there are only 1 or 2 responsible people in the place. The irresponsible people did indeed spend most of their time drinking. Though from what I understand, those people would hardly be considered anarchists, just "some guy who had rent money so we moved him in". Indeed, I have been to house shows that nearly half of the people, maybe more, only came because there was cheap beer at the show, and were drunk off their ass making a mess of things, and didn't even live there. A beer every once in a while won't hurt anyone but when you spend most of your time/money on it and it affects the condition of your community at large, then it becomes a problem.

All that said, I think I would still enjoy the experience of living in a punk house for a time.

[James]

Preachy anarchists being preachy.

[Punk Rock Geek]

James, on 05 September 2011 - 02:46 PM, said:

Preachy anarchists being preachy.

Did you read it?

Above all, it is critical that our own choices not be a pretext for us to deem ourselves
superior to those who make different decisions. The only strategy for sharing
good ideas that succeeds unfailingly (and that goes for hotheaded, alienating tracts
like this one as well!) is the power of example – if you put “ecstatic sobriety” into
action in your life and it works, those who sincerely want similar things will join in.
Passing judgment on others for decisions that affect only themselves is absolutely
noxious to any anarchist – not to mention it makes them less likely to experiment
with the options you offer.
And so – the question of solidarity and community with anarchists and others
who do use alcohol and drugs. We propose that these are of utmost importance.
Especially in the case of those who are struggling to free themselves of unwanted addictions,
such solidarity is paramount: Alcoholics Anonymous, for example, is just
one more instance of a quasi-religious organization filling a social need that should
already be provided for by anarchist community self-organizing. As in every case,
we anarchists must ask ourselves: do we take our positions simply to feel superior to
the unwashed (er, washed) masses – or because we sincerely want to propagate accessible
alternatives? Besides, most of us who are not substance-addicted can thank
our privileges and good fortune for this; this gives us all the more responsibility
to be good allies to those who have not had such privileges or luck – on whatever
terms they set. Let tolerance, humility, accessibility, and sensitivity be the qualities
we nurture in ourselves, not self-righteousness or pride. No separatist sobriety!

[SertraOD]

I quit all habitual drug use. Weed, cigarettes, etc. I got drunk twice this year though but regretted it.

I still talk to God though. But you can't do that more than once a week and even that is too much to handle.

[Black Cat]

SertraOD, on 06 September 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

I quit all habitual drug use. Weed, cigarettes, etc. I got drunk twice this year though but regretted it.

I still talk to God though. But you can't do that more than once a week and even that is too much to handle.

Funny, last time we talked God said the same thing about you.

[Renan]

I don't understand how anyone can live in this society being sober all the time. The major reason for people to get drunk or high is to get out of their ridiculous and pathetic reality of daily life. People prefer to live an illusion than to live this reality. And I completely understand that.

Everyone I know who don´t use any kind of drugs, make up for it with other kinds of addictions. Obsession with religion, with politics, with working etc.
People can´t live a healthy life in an unhealthy society.

[Punk Rock Geek]

Renan, on 23 September 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

I don't understand how anyone can live in this society being sober all the time. The major reason for people to get drunk or high is to get out of their ridiculous and pathetic reality of daily life. People prefer to live an illusion than to live this reality. And I completely understand that.

Everyone I know who don´t use any kind of drugs, make up for it with other kinds of addictions. Obsession with religion, with politics, with working etc.
People can´t live a healthy life in an unhealthy society.

The article actually agrees with you.

[Floyd]

Renan, on 23 September 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Everyone I know who don´t use any kind of drugs, make up for it with other kinds of addictions. Obsession with religion, with politics, with working etc.
People can´t live a healthy life in an unhealthy society.

You only know me on the internet, but I don't do any of those things. though I do probably spend too much time on the internet, but that's only because I know lots of great people and talking to them helps me deal with life. That, and going to shows and hanging out with lots more awesome people, most of whom do the same as me.

[soybot]

Renan, on 23 September 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

I don't understand how anyone can live in this society being sober all the time. The major reason for people to get drunk or high is to get out of their ridiculous and pathetic reality of daily life. People prefer to live an illusion than to live this reality. And I completely understand that.

Everyone I know who don´t use any kind of drugs, make up for it with other kinds of addictions. Obsession with religion, with politics, with working etc.
People can´t live a healthy life in an unhealthy society.

There are some very broad generalizations you're making. Many people do not use substances to cope, and many people who don't use substances live healthy, balanced lives.

[Black Cat]

Renan, on 23 September 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

I don't understand how anyone can live in this society being sober all the time. The major reason for people to get drunk or high is to get out of their ridiculous and pathetic reality of daily life. People prefer to live an illusion than to live this reality. And I completely understand that.

Everyone I know who don´t use any kind of drugs, make up for it with other kinds of addictions. Obsession with religion, with politics, with working etc.
People can´t live a healthy life in an unhealthy society.

But since we all are this unhealthy society, it helps breaking the vicious circle by at least making an effort towards living healthier.

Of course, if using drugs keeps you from killing yourself, because at the moment you're unable to find a way to cope without any help, it can be reasonable to keep using. But this always should only be the last resort. My friend is a social worker and she once worked in a shelter for homeless, severely addicted, prostituting girls and women. Due to the experience from this job she's in favour of a free distribution of for instance heroin (monitored by doctors, of course) for people, who are not able to cope with their life differently and are already addicted.
She said, a lot of her clients were damaged beyond any hope, starting with various trauma from childhood and ending with having been raped at least once during working as a prostitute and everything else, that comes with living on the streets, being an addict. By getting the substance they need without the hassle of having to chase an illegal, expensive drug everyday, those people would be able to live a relatively normal life. Of course, they would still be addicted, but seeing the kind of damage that has already been done to them, it would be the most reasonable thing to do.

But seeing that compared to those people, I have been very lucky so far, I even feel the responsibility to make an effort to get my addictive behaviour under control and I'm including every addictive behaviour into this, not only the kind that is related to substances. I don't prefer living an illusion, it would be wasting my life and I only have this one.

[Renan]

soybot, on 23 September 2011 - 10:00 PM, said:

There are some very broad generalizations you're making. Many people do not use substances to cope

All the people I know use "substances" to try to get out of their daily realities (that they admit it or not, are miserable one way or another) of imposed social roles. Including me.

soybot, on 23 September 2011 - 10:00 PM, said:

and many people who don't use substances live healthy, balanced lives.

First, the word "healthy" was used in all its meanings and not just physically, but also mentally and even spiritually (philosophical sense).

For example, I'm physically healthy but can´t say the same of my mental/spiritual health. I see similar things among my relatives and other people close to me.

I see insanity around me all the time, actually. On my way to work several times I see an old man with a messy hair talking to himself, as if cursing someone, just to name a light example.