90 replies to this topic

[Goatseboy]

I never really read up that much on Maoism, so I haven't really got an informed opinion. But i'm pretty sure The Great Leap Forward was one of the most damning indictments in human and left wing history, so I tend to be wary of Mao's thought. Unless he thought up...


http://www.maoam.com...am_himbeere.gif

[All Dead]

The Vegan Anarchist, on 21 February 2010 - 03:34 PM, said:

So because I go against their apathetic care for the conditions that are put onto them, then I must be anti-worker? Where the fuck do you get at?

First off, you described workers in the U.S. as "bourgeois", which in itself makes NO fucking sense. Second, you blame their apathy soley on the workers themselves, as if social conditioning has nothing to do with your average American's opposition to communism, or their apathetic views to politics in general. In case you haven't noticed, we here in the U.S. are quite privelaged, thus many Americans don't exactly see the inherent problems with capitalism.
The fact of the matter is, this is a deliberate tactic used by the ruling class to control the working class, something which you fail to acknowledge.

I don't think you're going to convince anyone your views are right if you place yourself above them.

[John]

All anti-intellectual leftism is complete failure. Discovery, technology, and progress are the cornerstones of human ascension.

[The Vegan Anarchist]

I'm not placing myself above them, & I'm not calling every U.S. worker like that. I'm saying that there are workers in the U.S. that are like that. And yes, I'll agree, there is social conditionings that play into this. But do you believe that if we started fighting right now, like Steve wants, we would help re-condition these workers into joining our side? If so, then how?

[All Dead]

The Vegan Anarchist, on 21 February 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm not placing myself above them, & I'm not calling every U.S. worker like that. I'm saying that there are workers in the U.S. that are like that. And yes, I'll agree, there is social conditionings that play into this. But do you believe that if we started fighting right now, like Steve wants, we would help re-condition these workers into joining our side? If so, then how?

Many people are that way because those are the norms of our society; There are roles that are expected to be fulfilled. You can't blame the norms of our society on the people who are born into those conditions. Blame the education system, blame the media, but for fuck's sake, don't blame the people who ARE the potential revolutionary force.
The insurrection in Greece inspired demonstrations and riots in solidarity all over Europe, and even here in the U.S. People are pissed off, but they're also living with fear and uncertainty. Acts of revolt can take away that fear, and inspire others to utilize their anger.
The message is simple: we're done waiting.

I'm sure someone else can convey this thought more clearly than I.

[Gibby]

The Vegan Anarchist, on 21 February 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

Those people are the only ones over there fighting & are staying true to their people. Taking over factories, building sites, privately-run facilities & then allowing workers to take them over or let the community decide whether it should continue or not, based on if it was used for the betterment of their community & the people within it. So fuck off if you're going to attack people that are actually making a change & fighting for it in large numbers instead of sitting behind a computer complaining.

Right, I don't claim to be an expert on politics but I've deduced that Maoism is the school of thought based on that Mao man's beliefs? If so then are you honestly claiming that China is some kind of lovely workers' paradise?

The "...snobby, elitist..." part of my comment was a reference to this nonsense; "the U.S. is filled with a bunch of bourgeois, placid workers that don't give a shit but what's on tv & who to fuck next."

The Vegan Anarchist, on 21 February 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

Wasn't attacking Gibby in particular, but rather anyone who complains but does nothing at all, themselves. I don't know if Gibby does anything, whether protests or riots on the streets. Which is why I don't attack people in particular, but rather anyone that acts of the way that I point out.

Actually I don't riot or whatever, but then again I also don't claim to be an anarchist or whatever.

[Steve]

John, on 21 February 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

All leftism is complete failure.

[Steve]

The Vegan Anarchist, on 21 February 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm not placing myself above them, & I'm not calling every U.S. worker like that. I'm saying that there are workers in the U.S. that are like that. And yes, I'll agree, there is social conditionings that play into this. But do you believe that if we started fighting right now, like Steve wants, we would help re-condition these workers into joining our side? If so, then how?

There is no such thing as reconditioning. At least not in the elitist Leninist sense of "re-educating the masses." All of that is a bunch of bullshit. The only language that actually speaks anything to anyone is action. You can say all of the coolest shit you want, but if you're not doing anything, no one will listen.

Fight now means that those of us who have an analysis of capitalism should be attacking it at all times and in every aspect of our lives. The only thing we can hope for is that this will resonate with other people and will become a generalized struggle.

[James]

These 'debates' that periodically spring up around The Vegan Anarchist is almost enough to make me believe history is cyclical and to give up on everything.

[JohnWayneWasANazi]

I already believe history is cyclinical. Nearly every country in modern history has started off very free, then moved to a dictatorship or fascism, then there was a revolution and it starts all over again. Now please yell at me with examples of how wrong I am.

[Steve]

JohnWayneWasANazi, on 21 February 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

I already believe history is cyclinical. Nearly every country in modern history has started off very free, then moved to a dictatorship or fascism, then there was a revolution and it starts all over again. Now please yell at me with examples of how wrong I am.

Africa proves you wrong, fgt.

[James]

JohnWayneWasANazi, on 21 February 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

I already believe history is cyclinical. Nearly every country in modern history has started off very free, then moved to a dictatorship or fascism, then there was a revolution and it starts all over again. Now please yell at me with examples of how wrong I am.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

[NICKxSUTTON]

JohnWayneWasANazi, on 21 February 2010 - 07:12 PM, said:

I already believe history is cyclinical. Nearly every country in modern history has started off very free, then moved to a dictatorship or fascism, then there was a revolution and it starts all over again. Now please yell at me with examples of how wrong I am.

Native american's weren't fascist or dictatorship brigades? No where in history does it say they were either. Europe basically fucked it up for the rest of the planet. Also U.S.A. still hasn't fallen under fascism (corporate bastards and governing assholes? Yes. Tyrants? No.)

[JohnWayneWasANazi]

Steve, on 21 February 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:

Africa proves you wrong, fgt.

Yeah...

James, on 21 February 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:

I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

I was, but I knew I was probably wrong from when I posted it. I just wanted examples of how wrong I am.

NICKxSUTTON, on 21 February 2010 - 08:49 PM, said:

Native american's weren't fascist or dictatorship brigades? No where in history does it say they were either. Europe basically fucked it up for the rest of the planet. Also U.S.A. still hasn't fallen under fascism (corporate bastards and governing assholes? Yes. Tyrants? No.)

Yeah, but then the Native Americans got taken over by Europeans, which created an authoritarian government compared with what they were used to. Yeah, I know. I didn't say the US was fascist.

[Steve]

Also, America proves you wrong. It didn't start out free. There were slaves.

[JohnWayneWasANazi]

Steve, on 21 February 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

Also, America proves you wrong. It didn't start out free. There were slaves.

I meant free for rich white men, obvz.

[tiredoflies]

I heard about this on NPR, some government guy said that it isn't considered terrorist attack and some conservative guy said why the hell not?

I dunno what you guys heard, but I think that's pretty ridiculous, why wouldn't he be considered a terrorist? Because he's not Arab?

[Dopamino]

It wasn't for any political purpose, he was just expressing his anger.

[NICKxSUTTON]

JohnWayneWasANazi, on 21 February 2010 - 09:06 PM, said:

I meant free for rich white men, obvz.

Did you just descibe fascism?

tiredoflies, on 21 February 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

I heard about this on NPR, some government guy said that it isn't considered terrorist attack and some conservative guy said why the hell not?

I dunno what you guys heard, but I think that's pretty ridiculous, why wouldn't he be considered a terrorist? Because he's not Arab?

Because he wasn't exactly terrorizing people, also they usually only identify terrorism by groups. A bunch of people selecting people to commit suicide(resulting in mass civilian casualties) and threatening to do it again would be terrorists. Also terrorists usually direct the brunt of their violent acts upon innocent people. I would more call this guy a muderer than a terrorist.

Would you call son of sam a terrorist?

Also since when does terrorism have to mean ill intent. The i.r.a. is considered a terrorist group.

[SertraOD]

America is a fascist country. It follows essentially all the tenets of Mussolini's fascism.

A dictator is not as essential to fascist ideology as you'd think.