53 replies to this topic

[ArtIsResistance]

RancidPunk, on 11 October 2009 - 09:56 PM, said:

That's what I think.  If you're naturally thin I wouldn't have a problem with that.   Just those people who are anorexic or over obsessed with working out to look like a skeleton.  

Yeah, if you can count their ribs...  

NICKxSUTTON, on 13 October 2009 - 11:04 PM, said:

there are more healthy girls than anorexic girls so i feel that the ball is in there court and if they are so superficial that they will partake in these trends then i dont feel bad for them.

As a person who studies Psychology, I would just like to remind everyone that disorders such as Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia Nervosa are not just some superficial "trends" that both women and men "follow". They are legit psychological disorders characterized by a distorted self image. Sure, the media can contribute to these distorted images of oneself, but there's far more to it than that. I've actually completed research papers on both topics. In fact, if you read more into it, you will see that there is a high occurrence of sexual abuse victims amongst groups of people suffering with these eating disorders. They can't simply "eat a cheeseburger and get over it". Sure, there is treatment, but it's a long process. Let's not be ignorant.

AYP, on 11 October 2009 - 11:07 PM, said:

this is hawt

That picture has been going around... I'm surprised no one has supplied the link to the actual story so far. That model was fired by Ralph Lauren for being "too fat" at 5'10 and 120 lbs. On top of that, they proceeded to photoshop her body to make her look even THINNER than she already is.

http://www.nydailyne...ng_too_fat.html

Quote

so if your a girl and you starve yourself to get skinny so you can date someone very attractive as opposed to getting someone less attractive who will love you for who you truely are, then i have a hard time feeling sorry for you. all these first world countries just sit around and think that beaty is some sort nessecity, instead of loving someone for who they truely are. ive heard teenagers that wont date someone because of the clothes they wear. wtf is that all about. so for those people i really have a hard time feeling sorry for them.

Read again what I said about the eating disorders being more psychological. Your statements are full of ignorance and apathy. It's a lot easier to "not feel sorry" for these people than it is to actually understand where they are coming from... and the actual roots of their disease.

Steve, on 13 October 2009 - 01:17 AM, said:

It's not sexist in the same way. Don't apologize. Boys and men have it rough, too (I'll be the last person to deny this), but to say it's the same thing as what women and girls experience is wrong. We live in a male dominated culture, and seeing women as weak and as sexual objects is the norm. You can't look at the one issue of physical beauty in today's culture without looking at the whole of sexism as an institution.

It's like saying black man calling a white man a "cracker" is the same as a white man calling a black man a "nigger."

Exactly!

[lemming3k]

I must be broken. I didn't find the woman attractive at the end. She wasn't bad at the start though.

[Fightin_da_Man]

lemming3k, on 23 October 2009 - 10:15 AM, said:

I must be broken. I didn't find the woman attractive at the end. She wasn't bad at the start though.

You aren't broken; the fashion industry's grip on reality is.

[Zane 911]

AYP, on 11 October 2009 - 11:07 PM, said:

this is hawt

I don't see how anyone could like that, this is way to skinny, but i'm learning how to do that in school. My teacher is having us change ourselves using photoshop.

[lemming3k]

Fightin_da_Man, on 23 October 2009 - 10:17 AM, said:

You aren't broken; the fashion industry's grip on reality is.

I agree, but I tend to find most people do seem to find those women attractive, just like plastic movie stars and the like. Having said that, these same people tend to be the ones that tell me beauty is objective not subjective, and that they of course are "beautiful" and only those who are ugly would think it's subjective, and only those with "problems" wouldn't find them attractive.
People can be so easily influenced, you have to admire that.

[Skaz]

I don't believe you can define beautiful as it is subjective. That said, I think whatever is healthy should be considered beautiful. In any other species this is the case, when did we lose that I wonder? I understand the media play a part in influencing people's perception of beauty but I can't understand why people buy into that bullshit. I, like everyone else, worry about my appearance but I don't let it consume my life.

As for the skinny models, I've never met anyone who finds them attractive. Where does the idea that they are even come from?

[Zane 911]

No one can define beautiful, when you are talking about people you can't define beautiful. what one person finds beautiful another person might not. When talking about guys finding women beautiful, some guys may find skinny girl beautiful, other guys like larger women, so skinny does not mean that person is beautiful. No one women can look beautiful to everyone.

[lastnightilie]

ArtIsResistance, on 23 October 2009 - 06:35 AM, said:

As a person who studies Psychology, I would just like to remind everyone that disorders such as Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia Nervosa are not just some superficial "trends" that both women and men "follow". They are legit psychological disorders characterized by a distorted self image. Sure, the media can contribute to these distorted images of oneself, but there's far more to it than that. I've actually completed research papers on both topics. In fact, if you read more into it, you will see that there is a high occurrence of sexual abuse victims amongst groups of people suffering with these eating disorders. They can't simply "eat a cheeseburger and get over it". Sure, there is treatment, but it's a long process. Let's not be ignorant.

True, but the disorders wouldn't exist if our culture didn't value the "thin" image. There are some studies that suggest those people have a problem with the regulation of their appetite (i.e. they don't feel hungry often enough)... but then it would no longer be based on body image. (I also study psychology.)



Honestly, I hate to say this, but beauty actually is objective for the most part. Not fat/thin, or your skin, hair or eye color, but things like symmetry and ratios. But to tell the truth, knowing that I am off the objective ideal of beauty is kind of liberating to me. I don't believe in changing myself for aesthetic reasons, so I just accept it. And people generally don't fall in love with me, but if they do, I know that it's not because I'm attractive. And I like that.

Also, that's just initial attractiveness, I suppose. Beauty is something different. Usually, people become more beautiful to me as I get to know how awesome they are. So that's probably a better definition.

[ArtIsResistance]

lastnightilie, on 25 October 2009 - 07:15 PM, said:

True, but the disorders wouldn't exist if our culture didn't value the "thin" image. There are some studies that suggest those people have a problem with the regulation of their appetite (i.e. they don't feel hungry often enough)... but then it would no longer be based on body image. (I also study psychology.)

There is some truth to your statement (as it can be a factor in many of the cases today), but Anorexia Nervosa was first defined in the late 1800s as a medical problem, so it's really nothing new... and just imagine all of the cases of the said eating disorder before that time period. While it may be said that there has always been a certain pressure on women to be a certain shape, size, etc. it really has never been as bad as it is today... especially with the easy access that the media has to the public in these ages. So, if it were pressure from the media, why were there so many cases in the 1800s that they felt the need to study and coin a term for such a disorder?

Also, they are finding that some people have a genetic predisposition to such eating disorders. There are many, MANY causes for Anorexia Nervosa... right down to a method of control in one's life. They feel that their eating habits are the only thing they really can control. I mean, I can go on and on about this disorder because it is so complex. All I am saying is that we cannot push all of the blame off on the media for all eating disorders, though they do contribute.

[Skaz]

lastnightilie, on 25 October 2009 - 07:15 PM, said:

But to tell the truth, knowing that I am off the objective ideal of beauty is kind of liberating to me. I don't believe in changing myself for aesthetic reasons, so I just accept it. And people generally don't fall in love with me, but if they do, I know that it's not because I'm attractive. And I like that.

Also, that's just initial attractiveness, I suppose. Beauty is something different. Usually, people become more beautiful to me as I get to know how awesome they are. So that's probably a better definition.

Yeah, I don't really find myself being attracted to people until I get to know them. Personality is more important than physical appearance. Unfortunately, I rarely find people who's personality I like

[lemming3k]

Skaz, on 25 October 2009 - 08:40 AM, said:

As for the skinny models, I've never met anyone who finds them attractive. Where does the idea that they are even come from?

Media influence playing on the insecurities of women. The number of women who consider themselves "fat" regardless of their actual size is astonishing, and it's often linked to this idea that supermodel skinny women are the "hottest" you can be. Which is why if you ever meet a really skinny girl, she believes she's the epitome of beauty. Regardless of how flat she is, how many ribs you can fit your hands around, or how ugly her face is.
Most guys probably don't give a fuck so long as you'll blow them and aren't a complete dog.

Skaz, on 26 October 2009 - 07:21 AM, said:

Yeah, I don't really find myself being attracted to people until I get to know them. Personality is more important than physical appearance. Unfortunately, I rarely find people who's personality I like

Same.


Footnote - Generalisations apply to the majority, not to everybody.

[mark nine]

marketing is the disease. in this thread people have covered every aspect of self esteem and how it can be eroded and supported through mass media mind control. it only takes one kid in the class to look like the one in the ads and everyone else feels pressure. why? because they reinforce that message at every opportunity.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if only the beholden would realise that then we wouldn't have an issue.

lets all go and burn down a barbie doll factory, thats where the problem starts, don't you know

[Steve]

ArtIsResistance, on 26 October 2009 - 05:13 AM, said:

There is some truth to your statement (as it can be a factor in many of the cases today), but Anorexia Nervosa was first defined in the late 1800s as a medical problem, so it's really nothing new... and just imagine all of the cases of the said eating disorder before that time period. While it may be said that there has always been a certain pressure on women to be a certain shape, size, etc. it really has never been as bad as it is today... especially with the easy access that the media has to the public in these ages. So, if it were pressure from the media, why were there so many cases in the 1800s that they felt the need to study and coin a term for such a disorder?

Also, they are finding that some people have a genetic predisposition to such eating disorders. There are many, MANY causes for Anorexia Nervosa... right down to a method of control in one's life. They feel that their eating habits are the only thing they really can control. I mean, I can go on and on about this disorder because it is so complex. All I am saying is that we cannot push all of the blame off on the media for all eating disorders, though they do contribute.

I think what's being said is that this society increases anorexia in men and women because of beauty standards. In the same way that depression has been around for ever, but is increasing at an alarming rate in today's society.

[ArtIsResistance]

Steve, on 30 October 2009 - 03:53 PM, said:

I think what's being said is that this society increases anorexia in men and women because of beauty standards. In the same way that depression has been around for ever, but is increasing at an alarming rate in today's society.

I don't disagree with that. This society does contribute to the growing number of cases when it comes to eating disorders... but eating disorders are often more complex than... "the media made me do it". That's all I'm saying. It's rather sad really, that we are made to feel uncomfortable in our own skin.